Traffic Systems Group (TSG) - All Discussions

Future Open Meetings

Peter_Bull — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:18:04 +0100

The next Open meeting will be on 7th October at TfL's Palestra building. Full details will follow, but in the morning there will be presentations showing how Keymed have helped authorities introduce some innovative safety improvements. In the afternoon we will hear about a new govenment sponsored national framework agreement which will allow us all to procure intelligent transport equipment and solutions more efficiently and at lower cost.

At its meeting in June the Committee decided that this will be the last of this type of Open meeting. In future we will have two Open Meetings, in March and September each year, but they will be in the style of workshops, building on the success of the Communications Workshop we held in Doncaster. They will include more participation by attendees, we are aiming at something which will be useful as CPD, particularly for younger staff. We will also be getting out and about - although on March 3rd next year we will again be guests of TfL, on September 8th we will be visiting Cardiff. The Committee meetings will also change, from three to four a year, in line with the CSS Transport Committee.

The theme for the March workshop will be "Designing for Pedestrians". The provisional programme will be a short introduction by the Chair, including an update on significant Committee matters, followed by a presentation about the recent Traffic Advisory Leaflet. We will then have breakout sessions looking at solving problems in prepared case studies, with a report back before lunch. After lunch we will have presentations on a couple of innovative solutions followed by discussion. We haven't decided what we want to cover in September, so suggestions are welcome.

By reducing the number of Open Meetings there will be less time to report back on our liaison meetings with the HA and DfT, and fewer opportunities for members to raise concerns. To counteract this we want to make more use of this discussion forum; and we will try to get some improvements in the way that it works in response to the concerns some of you have raised.

Using the TSG Forum

Peter_Bull — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:42:05 +0100

This forum is for members of the County Surveyors Society Transport Systems Group (CSS TSG) and is hosted courtesy of the Institute of Highway Incorporated Engineers (IHIE). However, all opinions expressed in the forum are those of the individual members - they are not those of the CSS, TSG or IHIE.

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TSG Documents

Peter_Bull — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:38:50 +0100

Copies of TSG documents will go here for downloading

Pole Foundations

Jo — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:46:59 +0100

If, at a junction you are about to refurbish, it may be that you have no option but to concrete in several traffic signal poles (both straight and cranked) what depth should your foundation be? It's been that long since we did, I can't find our ancient superseded several times standard detail. 600mm deep by 1000mm square? I am just not sure about cranked.

Thanks

The removal of traffic signals

Mr T. — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 09:55:54 +0100

I have been asked to look into the possible removal of traffic signals at junctions or pedestrian crossings where they are not really required and I was wondering if anyone else has undertaken this and if so is there is anything I need to be wary of?

Failures of welded cranked poles?

Tanya Soar — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:57:44 +0100

Could anyone provide details/evidence of any failures of welded cranked poles suffered within their Authority please, and any consequences of those failures (injury accidents etc.)? Am looking for justification to swap out old cranks for swan-neck poles...

My email address is tanyaDOTsoarATwspgroupDOTcom

Thanks in advance!

Tanya

Use of Dot Markings on Roads at Signal Controlled Junctions

bernie japs — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:35:01 +0100

Dot markings have been used to guide drivers into their appropriate traffic lane at signalised roundabouts for a good number of years but has anyone used this type of c/w marking at certain signalised junctions to channel or position through vehicles in a similar fashion? Also, if affirmative, is there any reference/guidelines re the use of this type of c/w marking with appropriate dimensions to suit?

How long can you make them wait?

jburgess — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:01:38 +0100

I have had a long term correspondence with a member of the public who believes I have given too much priority to a side road at a junction. It's true that the side road in question is relatively quiet and the main through route carries large volumes of traffic. Under certain conditions, associated with there being no demand for a nearby Puffin crossing linked to the junction, the green max for the main road can extend up to 108 seconds whilst still maintaining an overall cycle time of approx 120 seconds. I am being asked to extend the main road max still further so I thought I would see what limits others place on phase green times. Just how long can you reasonably expect a driver on the side road to wait?

Mast Arms - testing and re-galvanising

Matt Smith — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 09:52:31 +0100

I'm looking to renew a site which has several existing mast arms, these are about 20 years old. Can anyone recommend a company who are able to carry out non destructive testing of the columns / cantilever arms in situ. I would also like to get the items re-galvanised if anyone can suggest a contractor they have used for this work. The site is located near to J21 of the M1.

Thanks

ELEXON Operational Information Document

Power Data — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 09:15:30 +0100

ELEXON has revised and republished the OID. This document gives information about how unmetered equipment is accounted for in the electricity settlement arrangments. The document has been substantially revised, in particular the section associated with traffic signal equipment has been expanded to try and clarify some of the questions that frequently arise - including questions on this forum. The confusion between 'signal head' and 'signal aspect' is one area that has been improved. It is still not perfect, but it was agreed to publish it while a few parts are redrafted. If there are parts of the document that are still unclear please either post a comment or send an email, we will see if we can ensure the next version is even more explicite.
http://www.elexon.co.uk/Documents/participating_in_the_market/unmetered_supplies_-_operational_information/operational_information_documentv8_0.pdf
Main Elexon page for unmetered charge codes, switch regimes, contacts... http://www.elexon.co.uk/participating/unmeteredSupplies.aspx

Temporary Ped crossings

paulpickerill — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:02:56 +0100

We've been asked if we can put a temp PedX in the city but aren't sure if their legality and Type Approval has been sorted out yet.

Can anyone tell us what the status of these things is currently?

Thanks

"unit rates"

tonys — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:15:11 +0100

A colleague in another HA (no names...) has asked if i could post this query

he wonders if there is a "national" value for unit rates for building maintenance contracts or whether each LA sets their own?

SIEMENS LV CLS HEAD RELIABILITY

james.abel — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:43:34 +0100

In bedford we have been experiencing a high level of failures of the Helios CLS LV head. The cause of failure has been with the LMF unit within the heads rather than the led aspects themeselves.

The repaired units we have been receiving back always seem to detail the same repair. Which involves the resoldering of the PCB which im my opion is a sign of overheating.

Has anyone else been having the same issues.

RATS (and how best to get rid of the little beggers!)

tonys — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:07:58 +0100

A colleague in a neighbouring authority seems to have a problem with unwanted “visitors” (Rats) getting into his controllers.

His maintenance contractor is unsure of the best way to deter them and how best to prevent their return.

Has any one else had a problem with “ratty”

Tony

Elexon Codes

David Hughes — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:23:07 +0100

Apologies if I've missed any previous discussions or information on this topic! Our authorities are under scrutiny by Western Power regarding the many unmetered supplies that are installed (WPD have actually employed technicians to go around checking the equipment to check that it complies with the information that we've supplied). I am working on compiling a list of all the equipment with their correct elexon codes, incorporating the recent changes to codes. But I've noticed that some equipment is not covered by the recent elexon code list, and a Siemens 900 LV controller is rated at 18W nominal, while a 750 ELV controller is rated at 22W nominal and a 900 ELV is 67W!! Maybe this is correct?

I'm interested to know how other authorities manage with this, or was I sent a dud list from elexon?!!! Is this issue not so important in other regions?

Fancy a challenge?

paulpickerill — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:19:09 +0100

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100823/sc_afp/chinaroadtraffic

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11062708

"BEIJING (AFP) – Thousands of vehicles were bogged down Monday in a more than 100-kilometre (62-mile) traffic jam leading to Beijing that has lasted nine days and highlights China's growing road congestion woes."

Intergreen issue

neil woolway — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:46:43 +0100

Hi

I have had a complaint from a cyclist using one of my junctions and he was concerened that he was nearly hit by a motorist coming out of a side road when he had right of way.

I am guessing that the cyclist went through the green signal just as it was about to terminate and was met by the motorist whos phase had just gained right of way. I have been to this junction before and extended the intergreen between both these two phases to ensure adequate clearence for vehicals, but i cant extended it further because a cyclist was a bit slow clear the junction and it is not a route overally used by cyclists.

Have any of you had these experiences before and how did you reply.

Thanks in advance.

Out-sourced UTC operations?

Peter_Bull — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:48:13 +0000

Sheffield has just announced that our new out-sourced ICT provider is (subject to scrutiny etc.) to be Capita. We've had the feeling that the tanks are being lined up by our ICT people to make a grab for at least some parts of our UTC operation - because we use ICT and it has been decided centrally that all ICT is all going to be handled by the ICT team.

Does anyone know if Capita run any UTC operations anywhere (I believe they run the London Congestion Charging), and are there any other out-sourced operations other than Essex and Berkshire?

LED’s “too bright”?

tonys — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:59:45 +0100

Anyone experienced any problems with LED heads being “too bright” at night.

I have a site supplied by the “blue corner” that although I’m told is “dimming” still seems very bright. (Notwithstanding the fact that the light from LED’s is “different” and more “intense” than a HI head)

On an HI lamped head I could just have the transformer “stepped” down to the next reduced wattage but I’m told that LED heads dim to a common voltage in accordance with a DfT standard?
And that if the voltage is dropped the LED out put doesn’t go down until the voltage is reduced to such a point when it just stops working ?

Observations/comments welcome

Design life of Traffic Signals

Nige Taylor — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:27:15 +0000

I have always been led to believe that a Traffic Signal junction has a design life of 15 years, but can someone point me in the direction of where I can find this in writting please?

Thanks

Nige

Peek PTC1 problems

ianwallis — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:44:16 +0100

Just spent a frustrating couple of days with a new installation and wanted to share the information with others so you don't have the same problems.

The scheme is unfinished so the controller is running the junction plus a shuttle set of signals on stream 2. It is therefore running CLF 24 hours to maintain the linking as the reservoir between is quite short. We had a number of reports of the shuttle sticking red overnight although initial checks found nothing. However I had an early morning start on Tuesday and sure enough they were stuck red and the controller was in VA mode (the shuttle signals have no detectors as the timings are dictated by the plan).

The problem appears to be the PTC1 timetable. Each entry has an end time (default midnight) so the entry put the overnight plan on at 19:00 but instead of running to the next plan entry at 07:00 it got to midnight and switched back to VA, then came back onto plan at 07:00. The obvious fix is to put another entry to run the overnight plan from midnight until 07:00 but the PTC1 requires the timetable entry to be in time order and there is no insert command. This means that I have to re-write my existing 12 entries into the next slot down to free up the first slot for my midnight starting entry (everyone still with me?). It's a huge bind and in my opinion a serious mistake in the original programming of the operating system.

Incidentally, this applies whenever you wish to add a timetable entry so to keep in time order you will always have to re-write any entries which are timed to start later.

So going back to my original intention which is to prevent similar hassle for others, If you want CLF to run through midnight you will need to get a midnight start entry put into the PROM at configuration time and it might even be worth getting a blank one put in even if you don't plan to use it initially - at least you can modify that one instead of having to re-write the whole timetable down a slot.

Wireless detectors

Howard Saffer — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:30:27 +0100

Can anyone please provide an update (from a Council or Client's viewpoint) about the use / success / limitations of wireless detection - using magnetomers - that have been much hyped recently?

Are they an effective and reliable solution? What sort of wireless range can be achieved from a router (or repeater) to a detector? etc. What problems are encountered with configuring the detectors? - etc. Are they suitable/relaible enough for MOVA or SDE?

If you prefer - you can e-mail me directly - howardsaffersheffieldgovuk - or ring me on 0114 two-seven-three 6154

Thanks

Howard Saffer
Sheffield City Council

Siemens Heimdall Detection

Lou H — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:54:07 +0100

Hi,

I was wondering if any of you has much experience of using the Siemens Heimdall detectors for MOVA applications and if so how have you found them? I am considering specifying them for a MOVA roundabout but thought I would canvass opinion first!

Thanks,
Louise

NAL Rotating Mast Arm

james.abel — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:25:20 +0100

Has anybody on here had any experience with NAL's rotating mast arm. I have a scheme where i feel this may be suitable and want to test the water before i commit to specifying one.

James

Shared use of duct network

neil woolway — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:19:27 +0100

Hi everyone

Just a little advice if you don't mind. Our authorities CCTV department are looking into providing there own own private fibre network for there cameras around the town in order to get rid of the huge rental costs we all experience. They have asked me for a plan of my traffic signal duct network in order to utilise this where appropriate and to save themselves costs in ducting.

My question is are there a reason why i should'nt let them share the network and what have other authorities done regarding this.

It could actually be quite useful for me as i could utilise the dark fibre for my traffic signal junctions.

Thanks in advance

Signal damage by Royal Mail

Grahame bath — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:13:22 +0100

Hello all

We are claiming substantial sums from Royal Mail for damage caused to our signals by their vehicles.
Guess what? They are claiming they have an agreement (dated 1981) with all Local Highway Authorities
that they are exempt from meeting the costs of such damage to "immobile property".

This apparently is named "The Post Office Immobile Property Agreement"

News to us and our Soliticitors, but anyone else know anything to support or counter their claim?

Thanks and regards
Grahame Bath

Gap creation for minor roads using Pedestrian Crossings

Nickwarwick — Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:14:43 +0100

Has anyone any experience of creating gaps for a side road by inserting demands on an adjacent pedestrian crossing sited on the main road? I've seen this in a few locations, and it would be useful to see the signing (if any) that has been used.

Thanks

Funding

neil woolway — Thu, 13 May 2010 13:56:51 +0100

Hello everyone

I have a question, my revenue budget has just been cut ( along with most other authorities i guess), and i no longer have a budget to carry out upgrades to exiting sites, ( although for the last two years the budget was to small to carry out any).

My question is how do other authoritites get funding for any upgrade program? I have some sites at 25 years old.
Thanks

Our obligation to maintain Traffic Signal Installations

Matt Smith — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:19:08 +0100

Erm,

I have been asked by my Manager to find out which statutes cover the maintenance of our traffic signal stock. I guess in these troubled times the politicians are looking to 'trim' our maintenance budgets. Not being a legal person I'm struggling to answer his question. Going back to basics I would have thought the most obvious one would be a duty of care under H&S legislation to ensure that users don't get a jolt when things start to degrade. The other obvious thing is of course if lamps have failed and drivers pass a red signal causing an accident they may not be prosecuted successfully under the RTA and there would be a liability issue for the Authority. Can anyone else point out a few choice pieces of legislation?

Thanks awfully.

Matt

Long Intergreen Fault in UTC

moothatbrijesh — Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:52:44 +0100

Anyone have any idea why we get Long Intergreen fault in UTC and Traffic controller gets isolated from UTC mode of operation?